Swiss Ariella Kaeslin is known not just for her spectacular gymnastics and Worlds medals but also for her memoir, in which she recounted the stories of emotional abuse she experienced and how depression and burnout forced her to retire in 2011.
Kaeslin talked to Tages Anzeiger about the culture of abuse in gymnastics and her reaction to the news about the abuse in USA.
Translation from German by Barbara.
Q: How do you react to the news of abuse in such a large-scale fashion?
A: I was shocked. It doesn’t fit the image the American gymnasts radiate; they don’t seem intimidated, they practically radiate joy. Compared to the Russians or the Chinese, there is a difference of night and day. Obviously, however, the Americans maintained a falsified image of themselves outwardly [as compared to what they were really feeling].
Q: Did you ever hear rumours about grievances in US gymnastics?
A: The Americans would always radiate high spirits – as it fits the cliché – yet I knew that, behind the scenes, some tough training methods were to be found. However, that something like that would come to light I would have never expected. It must be a great relief for the affected to finally be able to suspend the hiding game.
Q: Many US gymnasts train at the Karolyi ranch, where very tough training methods dominate the scene. Therefore, it was easy for Nassar, to gain the trust of the athletes, by providing small gestures of affection. [Note: the interviewer is referring to the grooming methods Nassar used to apply, such as smuggling in candy for the gymnasts at camp]
A: Marta Karolyi – what can I say – was known to be a very particular character. I never really found her likeable. She would present herself in a very arrogant manner. As soon as she entered the training gym, we were all intimidated. We would always make space on the floor instantly, so that the Americans could start their warm-up.
Q: How would the Karolyis treat their own gymnasts?
A: Dominating. The deal was: “You do this!”, and there was no refusal. But I never saw her screaming around either. I guess to the outside world, it was all alright, but behind the scenes, things were a lot tougher. Once the Americans visited Magglingen [the place where Ariella trained] and the trainers forbade them to cry. We saw gymnasts covering their faces or turning away when tears were in their eyes regardless.
Q: Did you observe similar circumstances with the Chinese or Russian gymnasts?
A: I was always under the impression that the Russian and Chinese athletes had it even harder. But with them, there isn’t even an attempt of hiding it. The Americans seemingly went through the same, just behind the scenes. I always thought – maybe in a naive fashion – the Americans were working so hard simply because their passion and joy for gymnastics was that big and they wanted the competitive success at any price. Obviously, they were treated in a brutal fashion as well.
Q: Despite all of it, no gymnast dared to open up to anyone.
A: In artistic gymnastics the athlete gets silenced a lot. This is how a culture of silence is built. The gymnast gets indoctrinated: You are young, you have nothing to say, you have to abide. You grow into that and ultimately you believe that this is the way it has to be.
Q: Can a 16-year-old gymnast even stand up to a coach?
A: Barely. Imagine, you are a young gymnast and had the chance to represent the United States in a World Championship or Olympic Games. You are going to abide, else you’re off the team. A 16-year-old doesn’t have the emotional maturity to defend herself in such a manner.
Q: Is success without militant drills even possible?
A: Gymnastics is a kid’s sport. On the one hand, a young gymnast is going to need somebody to guide them. On the other hand, a great deal of self-sufficiency is required already at a very young age. Yet one is not in a position to recognize all of the grievances and push back against them. One is powerless. If one doesn’t want to do it anymore, they are told, “there’s the door. The next gymnast eagerly awaits to take your place.”
Q: Rivalry like that exists everywhere on the top.
A: That is true. However combined with the circumstance that the athletes are incredibly young, it cultivates a climate in which grievances thrive.
Q: What does it take to publicly come forward? In the fashion the US Americans did – or as you and your teammates did in 2017 when you spoke out against national head coach Eric Demay?
A: I would not want to compare what I have experienced to the experiences of the US gymnasts. For us, it was about emotional abuse, not sexual abuse. However, I do see many parallels: incapacitation against the governing body and dependency on the governing body and coach.
Q: So what does it take to fight back?
A: Courage. As well as a support system. In our case, it was our parents.
Q: Trainers will inevitably have physical contact with the athletes, especially when spotting difficult skills.
A: Yes, the lines are blurry. Luckily, I was never under the impression that a trainer of mine had sexual motives when he touched me. However, when the trainer spots you in a handstand, he will inevitably touch you at the buttocks. It is a dilemma: on the one hand, you are very close to the trainer – physically and emotionally – on the other hand, there is a distance. Out of respect and sometimes out of fear. Our trainer [Zoltan Jordanov] used to say, when we were starting to get too casual, “hey, I’m not your peer”.
Q: The US gymnasts fooled the public all these years. You know this double deal: During the European Championships in 2011 you were drained and exhausted and shortly after, you retired. However, you didn’t show your desperation to the public either.
A: Really?
Q: We thought you were maybe a little tired, but that was it.
A: I myself didn’t really know what the problem was. Today I know that many athletes are just as close to the limit as I was.
Q: How come?
A: When my autobiography came out, in which I detail my exhaustion related depression, I received many reactions. World class athletes, some of which are still active today, confided in me about how, like me, they are exhausted to the limit and desperate because of it.
Q: Observing your [social media] posts – pictures from holidays, on skis or the bicycle – [your life] seems pretty relaxed.
A: That’s the point. Of course it’s fun, but behind that there’s work. To get a good photo and publish a quality post can take up to an hour; until every sponsor is tagged and what not. However, the #metoo movement shows that social media also provide a huge chance.
Q: You haven’t publicly commented on the #metoo movement. Why not?
A: I don’t want to mix up what I experienced as an athlete with the debate around sexual molestation and abuse. That’s a whole other dimension.
Q: Almost every woman – regardless of whether she is an athlete or – not has been confronted with inappropriate remarks before, or even touch.
A: I would say I haven’t. I like to think I have been spared in this regard – fortunately. I typically don’t view it as sexual harassment when I receive an email with inappropriate [sexual] content.
Q: You are regarded the “darling of the nation”, so media often comment on your appearance. Do you get offended by these diminutions?
A: I usually play along because it flatters me. And it puts more pressure on me. One starts to think looking pretty all the time is a requirement.
Q: Artistic gymnastics is a very body-centric sport. The gymnasts wear very revealing uniforms always wear tidy hair and make-up. Is this not out-dated yet?
A: Well, you can’t exactly wear ski pants. But yes, it has always bothered me. I preferred keeping my shorts on over my leotard. This isn’t allowed during competition. I had wished at several occasions to be able to wear a bit more. Gymnasts are extremely exposed. On the balance beam, the judges get an up-close view of you and during some elements you straddle your legs directly towards their face. This is uncomfortable. For a while, we weren’t even allowed to wear shorts in Magglingen, which was a rule of coach Eric Demay. No idea why. However, I don’t believe it had a sexually motivated background.
Q: And you didn’t question such rules?
A: Yes, I did. But we couldn’t fight it. The reasoning was for us to get used to competition atmosphere. Probably the trainers wanted to mainly observe every gram of body fat we had.
Q: Frequently women’s sports coverage gets criticized for focussing too much on appearance instead of performance. What’s your impression?
A: I think it depends on the sport. In beach volleyball, there’s basically no escape from that. There is also an increase in male athletes who define themselves increasingly by their outward appearance. Maybe the relevant difference is that women can’t choose whether they want to be judged by their appearance. Maybe one should give them the opportunity to cover up more if they wish.
Q: After your retirement you were looking forward to not “have to” anymore, but to “get to”. You are still physically very active now: rowing, running, Nordic skiing and you plan to complete an Iron Man soon. Sounds exhausting.
A: I am training without ambitions. And I do love endurance sports. After an hour long run I am happy. However, if I spend only half an hour in the gym, I notice regression.
Q: Concerning which elements?
A: In a handstand. my wrists feel as if they were breaking.
Q: You still got your splits?
A: Barely so.
Q: How often are you in a gymnastics gym these days?
A: Maybe once a year. Sometimes it overcomes me, then I need to do a handstand at home real quick. However, as a live spectator I am eagerly found at competitions, most recently at the Swiss Cup in November.
Q: When does the competitive spirit from former times still break through? After half an hour of running, can you just say “I feel satisfied, I’ll stop here”?
A: It used to be that when my smart watch said 9.5 km, I needed to complete 500 more meters. Today I don’t care about such things anymore. I had to consciously train that [mindset].
Q: And you really can stop at 9.9 km?
A: Effortlessly. Even at 9.9999 km.
Q: Is this why the clock is running 20 minutes ahead?
A: Does it really? Indeed.
Q: You’ve just turned 30 and will complete your Bachelor’s degree in sports psychology and physiology. Other people your age are starting a family. Do you feel as if you are behind?
A: Naturally I compare myself. However, I feel comfortable; I’m not nearly ready for children. I still am one. I feel 23, 24.
Q: In how far?
A: Whoever is a competitive athlete for as long a time as I was, seemingly lags behind a little bit. When I speak with other 30-year-olds, I notice they are completely different from me; they have been working for years, want children and are legit. I have way too many shenanigans in my head. And I am thinking of adding a whole another degree; physiotherapy maybe. Sure, I’ll be 35 once I’m finished with my 2nd degree. I would have to start this summer, then. Procrastinating is definitely not on my schedule.
Q: Could you imagine actually working as a physiotherapist?
A: No idea what I want to work as. However, somewhere in sports.
Q: You used to coach young girls in gymnastics.
A: Alas, I lack the time required nowadays. I would like to do it again – however just on the side. Those were very little girls, the youngest of which was three years old. It was very playful. You don’t need to be tough with them or follow a training plan.
Q: What would you say if your daughter or son expressed a desire to start gymnastics?
A: Then I would support my kid. It would also be fine, if they wanted to do another sport. Or music. After my retirement I decided my children will never be allowed to do gymnastics. It took five years for me to reconcile with gymnastics.
