Chusovitina talked to Anhor about staying in the sport for as long as she has and her decision to retire.
Q: While prepare for our interview, I read a dozen of your interviews and articles about you. In some, published in 2016, you already said that you would probably come to Tokyo and mark the end of your career as an athlete. So, you started preparing to retire from gymnastics mentally even before you started preparing for this competition physically, right?
A: I don’t know. I guess an athlete just feels when the time they will not want to train and compete anymore comes. I felt that my concluding Olympics would be in Tokyo. I knew that after Tokyo, the moment when I wouldn’t want to come to the gym anymore would happen. That’s exactly what happened.
Q: In the artistic circles, people don’t like the word “last”, they prefer words like “closing” or “concluding”…*
A: It’s the same with us. At practices, I say that it was my concluding routine. Or that my concluding competition was in Tokyo.
Q: Why don’t gymnasts use the word “last”?
A: It has injury associations. When you say that you are doing something for the last time, it means that you won’t ever do it again. You can’t say “last”.
Q: You once said that you’ll leave the elite sport when you’ll feel tired. What is harder for an elite athlete – to feel tired or to admit it to yourself?
A: It’s not hard to admit that you don’t want to train anymore. It’s hard to process it. For example, I was seemingly mentally ready, I knew that Tokyo would be it for me. But when I did my concluding vault and said goodbye to all the gymnasts and coaches, turned out, it was much harder to do than I had thought.
Q: Is there any truth to the saying “Participation is more important than victory”?
A: No. I think no self-respecting athlete ever goes to just participate somewhere. They always want to win, to earn a medal, to be on the medal podium. It’s the same in any sport.
Q: When commenting on the decision of the National Olympic Committee that suddenly changed the flag bearers and replaced you with another athlete, you said that it killed your motivation. What is motivation for an elite athlete? What is it composed of?
A: An athlete’s motivation. I can’t explain it, it all happens inside. I’m generally a positive person, I always try to find something good in a bad situation, to calm myself down somehow. I’ve only cried twice in my life – when my child got sick, and when this situation happened. At that moment, I felt awful, hurt, upset. I talked to myself in order to prepare myself for the competition somehow but wasn’t able to fix it. Perhaps, had it happened earlier, I would have been able to calm down. But a day before the competition… When I went out to compete, I didn’t have that spark, that energy that I always have. It was like water was poured into my fire and only ashes were left. There was still some smoke left but it was clear that the fire wouldn’t spark again. Then I realized that it was all sad but it means it had to happen this way.
Q: People in Uzbekistan often talk about the support for the athletes in all areas of their life. How should this support look for an athlete to be sure that their country will be behind them no matter what?
A: I think that for any retiring athlete it’s important to know what awaits them in the future, where they will be able to work. It would be nice if there was help with finding jobs. Of course, an athlete should also work on that. A lot depends on the person – if they want to, they will move forward and do something, but if they don’t, there won’t be any movement, even if the whole word will push them from behind.
Q: And what needs to be done to get good gymnasts in the country?
A: Selection, mass participation. I’ll give you an example from gymnastics. If 100 or 200 people train in the gym, you can find five [good ones] among them. But if you have ten people, there’s a high chance that none of them will stay in gymnastics. So, the sport can only develop if there is mass participation.
Q: What are the chances there is a future Olympian among these five?
A: No one can give you guarantees, it’s a sport.
Q: You’ve always said that gymnastics is in your life by chance. As a kid, you came to the gym with your brother by chance. After giving birth, you came back to the gym by chance even though you said you weren’t going to continue your athletic career and wanted to dedicate yourself to your family. Was your comeback really by chance? Were you truly ready to retire at that moment?
A: First of all, I had never said good bye to the elite sport before. Even when I gave birth to Alisher and went on maternity leave, I didn’t announce officially that I was retiring. Second, when I had my son, I actually didn’t want to come back to the sport. I didn’t even think about it. I just came to the gym to get my body in shape because I wasn’t used to seeing myself out of shape in the mirror. I started conditioning a bit and I don’t remember how I got sucked back in. I competed half a year after that. When people ask me whether it was hard to come back, I don’t know how to respond, because I don’t remember. Seriously. Perhaps, somewhere in my subconscious I wanted to train, but I just went to the gym without thinking how it would be, hard or not, and my body joined in. I always tell myself, “If you want something, try doing it so that you won’t regret it later”. Perhaps, I tried it then and I don’t regret it at all.
Q: Don’t you regret that you didn’t dedicate yourself to your home and family?
A: I did, while I was pregnant – I cooked borscht and cleaned. I did everything. [laughs]
Q: About a year ago, in one of the interviews, you admitted that your husband Bakhodir Kurbanov left the sport for you. Tell me what led him to this decision. Did you discuss it?
A: That’s the thing, we didn’t discuss it. My husband came and said that he made a decision – he would retire, so that I could continue my career. Alisher was sick then. I just couldn’t sit at the hospital, I was going crazy. You know, I’m a strong person, but at the hospital, I would constantly tear up. I had to constantly leave the room so that my child wouldn’t see it. But Bakha saw it. He just said, “Listen, I can’t watch it anymore. How about you get distracted a bit, while I’ll stay with Alisher, I’ll watch him. If you don’t want to, you can stop any time.”
Q: It’s a strong action for an elite athlete who also had a future and, perhaps, medals.
A: I was asked once, “Would you have done the same?” You know, I don’t have an answer to this. That’s why I’m very grateful to Bakha and I love him very much. I’ve felt nothing but support from him. I once told him, “Bakha, everyone thinks I’m such a hero but it was you who made it possible for me to stay [in the sport]”.
Q: Have you ever revisited this action, talked about what your husband felt then?
A: No. I know that it was a hard thing for him to do because I’m also an athlete. We’ve never revisited this topic. It’s over and done. My husband and I always live in the moment and look forward, but we think the past should be let go of.
Q: How did you meet Bakhodir?
A: If someone said to me then that Bakha was my future husband, I’d respond, “Are you crazy or what?” [laughs] We first met and even took a picture together in Hiroshima in 1994, at the Asian Games. I remember how I came to watch wrestling and a guy came up to me and asked for a picture. I agreed and then completely forgot this situation. The next time, we met two years later, at the Olympic village in Atlanta. We talked and then went our ways again. This time, not for long. After the Games, we were at the same event for Olympics. As the athlete of the year, I got a vase. And when everything was over, I went outside with that vase and started hailing a cab. A car stopped, Bakha was inside. It turned out we were going in the same direction. He offered to give me a ride. And he gave me a ride. [laughs]
Q: How did the introduction of your future husband to your parents go?
A: The introduction was to my mom, my dad was in Russia at the time. Bakha brought flowers. We sat down, he talked to my mom. After he left, she paced around for forty minutes or so and then asked, “Did you find yourself a husband?” I said, “Well, yeah”. My mom is like… She likes to boss people around. She then said, “Pack your things and get out”. I packed my things and went to Bakha’s. After that situation, I wouldn’t speak to my mom for a year. Can you imagine? Now I’m thinking how stupid I was. It’s my mom, after all. You need to love your parents. Always. I loved her but I didn’t want to talk to her. My mom later told me that she couldn’t have imagined that I would pack my things and leave. I’m the youngest in the family, everyone always fussed over me, and then this happened. Mom said her first thought was, “What will I tell dad when he asks where’s the youngest one?” My dad just adored me. He always approved of my choices. Even when I did gymnastics. My mom didn’t want this at all. She thought that sports only maim people and it’s not normal. Studies or playing piano would be a different matter. I played piano, too, but not for long. I know, of course, that my mom started being proud of me with time, but I would still hear from her sometimes, “Oh, what an old fool, she just keeps jumping”.
Q: And how did Bakhodir’s parents accept you?
A: Good. All his brothers and sisters love me, too. We’re friends, we visit each other. They never pointed out that I was raised differently. Of course, this is to a great extent thanks to my husband.
Q: Why was it important at 17 and still is important for you at 45 to live in Tashkent? What keeps you in this city, why is your home here?
A: I can’t explain it. I live in Tashkent. I have a full life. Perhaps, I can’t find some awesome job here but, you know, I feel happy in this city, in this country. I lived in Germany for 10 years. All these years, I lived with the thought that Alisher would get healthy and I would go back to Tashkent right away. I would fly here every time I had the chance – on weekends and vacations.
Q: Do you have a favorite spot in Tashkent?
A: No. I don’t know Tashkent well. During the lockdown, I got to know it more or less. Before that, I never had the time – practices, home, sometimes we would go to a cafe.
Q: Perhaps, that’s the reason you love it?
A: No, no. I feel great here. During the year we spent at home, I didn’t even miss having to fly somewhere. That’s what I’m saying – I guess, the moment came when I want peace and stay in the place where I feel good.
Q: You were eight years old when you first entered the gym. For a year, you trained with boys and absolutely refused to move to the girls despite the coach trying to persuade you. Why?
A: Because I’m used to always doing what I want and what I like.
Q: How did the boys treat you? Did they let you know that it would be better for a girl to be with her own kind?
A: Never. I remember that I even competed with the boys. And how could some boy tell me something if I could do more pull-ups than him?
Q: Looking at the current trends, is it possible to suggest that one day the division between men’s and women’s gymnastics will stop existing? Will men and women be able to compete together one day?
A: Men’s and women’s artistic gymnastics are two completely different sports. Boys have six events, girls have four. They emphasize power elements, we emphasize dance elements.
Q: Is it physically hard for girls to compete six events?
A: They don’t need it. If you ask someone whether it’s necessary to divide artistic gymnastics into men’s and women’s sports, people will tell you it’s the stupidest question possible. It’s just nonsense.
Q: In the spring, people actively discussed German gymnast Sara Voss at the European Championships. She competing in a unitard instead of a regular leotards and explained this by saying that many athletes are uncomfortable competing in leotards but they stay silent because it’s what’s customary and they could lose points. How did you feel at competitions? Have you ever wanted to compete in a uniform that covers your body?
A: I’ve always felt great. I have a great body and I love myself very much. I know this gymnast, we competed together on the German team. I think she should open the code and read that unitards were first allowed four years ago. Gymnasts from some Asian countries, for example, from Qatar, compete in short unitards. No one takes off points for that. I know that gymnasts feel comfortable in leotards. If some are against it, why don’t they compete in unitards throughout the whole competition? I think the goal of this was to attract attention. If they want to do it this way, let them.
Q: Have you ever been in situations, in the sport and in regular life, where you were underestimated or disregarded only because you’re a woman?
A: No, never. You know, a confident person will not allow to treat them in the way that some people would want to.
Q: Do you consider yourself pretty?
A: I don’t know.
Q: Do looks matter to you?
A: No.
Q: Among other gymnasts, you stand out thanks to your understated leotards, short haircuts, and lack of makeup. When did you decide that you would look and compete like that?
A: It’s always been like that. I compete without makeup and I never put on makeup in regular life.
Q: And you don’t want to?
A: I don’t want to and I don’t think it’s necessary. Only for magazine photoshoots.
Q: And what about the photo and video cameras at competitions through which the whole world watches the athletes? Many gymnasts try to look spectacular.
A: Look at all my photos. I look great!
Q: I have. On Instagram, you often post photos in which you make fun of yourself or make faces. They have quite ironic captions, for example, “model” and a smiley face.
A: I’m okay with myself, I’m not ironic towards myself. Captions are just captions.
Q: You admitted that you used to be self-conscious about competing because of your age. At what point did you realize that your age was an advantage?
A: Not an advantage… I have a friend, Sveta Boginskaya. Once, we were talking, and I told her, “You know, I go out to compete, there are 16-year-old girls there and I’m forty”. She told me then, “Oksana, don’t ever be ashamed of your age. On the competition floor, you look no worse than the young girls. You compete against them and you beat them, so always go out with your head high.” After this talk, I would go out to compete, look at those girls, and think, “catch up with me, first”. The rights words at the right moment really help athletes.
Q: How did it even happen that such a confident woman as you started doubting herself?
A: I guess, I gave in to this because a lot of media wrote that 42 years [in gymnastics] is unreal, 42 years is crazy. And some people here mentioned that it was time to step aside in favor of the younger ones. Once, I gave an interview on TV and when they had no more questions, I asked if I could address people. I said that I never took anyone’s place in this sport, only mine. I didn’t do to the World Championships alone. There were three other gymnasts with me who could have qualified to the Olympics. And I said, “I truly apologize for the fact that I qualified to the Olympics and the young ones didn’t. But this is why my spot is mine.”
Q: Are you now bothered by the fact that when people talk about the great Chusovitina, they always emphasize the age? Every other comment on your Instagram has the number.
A: Now I’m proud of it. Sometimes, I’m annoyed by couch experts who have never done a single squat in their life but know for sure who was supposed to be sent to competitions and how we were supposed to compete. I want to look them in the eyes and ask what they’ve done in their life.
Q: You once said that negative comments are needed because they give motivation. Can you remember one comment like this that motivated you?
A: I have a good memory but I’m not vindictive. Of course, they were needed but why would I keep the negative stuff in my head? All this passes, while life goes on.
Q: You were 17 years old when you realized that you wanted to achieve something in the elite sports. What goal did you set for yourself then and how much time did you give to yourself to reach it?
A: No time. It’s just that my first big competition as a part of the Unified team happened then. It’s hard to describe this feeling when you stand on the medal podium and the anthem of your country plays for you. I thought then – I want it to happen again. But when I first started gymnastics, I didn’t even know that Olympic Games or World Championships exist. There were no athletes in our family, I didn’t watch gymnastics. I remember how I came into the gym and was asked, “Do you want to be a World champion?” and I was like, “What for?”
Q: Looking at your performances, I can’t help but ask, do you ever feel scared?
A: Of course. We, athletes, are normal people, we also feel scared. When you learn new elements, you might feel scared, or might think “I won’t be able to do this”. But inside, you still want to try it. And this feeling when you overcame yourself and managed to do something is very good.
Q: Is there a worse feeling than fear?
A: Something worse than fear is when you go out to compete and don’t feel any adrenaline, you don’t want anything. This is the worst that can happen to an athlete.
Q: Should an athlete expect to be thanked for their achievements?
A: No. A professional athlete trains and competes, first of all, for themselves, not for someone else. If they don’t like it or don’t want to do it anymore, they always have to choice to turn back and leave.
Q: Tell me about your future gymnastics school.
A: It’s still in the process of planning. We’re waiting for signatures, decisions. I promise to say something as soon as there are news.
Q: Last year, you said that you were working on a show “My Way”. What stage are you at right now? What does this show mean to you?
A: We’re still in the preparation stage. We’re waiting that, perhaps, sponsors and philanthropists answer the call and help us hold this show where I will say goodbye to the sport. Why is the show needed? I want to show that there are other sports besides artistic and rhythmic gymnastics, there’s trampoline and acrobatics. I want parents to come and see what a beautiful sport it is. Perhaps, after the show, they’ll sign their kids up for artistic gymnastics – we need this . I want to explain to the parents that if a child does gymnastics, then, if they want to, they can always switch to another sport. But (and this is important), they can’t come back to gymnastics from another sport.
Q: You once said, “Any loss is a step towards victory”. So, you won, then?
A: You could say so. I won and I’m the happiest person in the world.
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*There is a superstition about the word “posledniy” [last, final] not just in the art circles but among many Russian speakers. Some believe that using this word would mean the person would die after their “final” performance, flight, etc., and prefer to use synonyms that have connotations of “last for now but might be resumed”.
